<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Wittgenstein Wasn&#8217;t a Woman</title>
	<atom:link href="http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/</link>
	<description>Musings on education, techology, and life..</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:23:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-408745</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/#comment-408745</guid>
		<description>@Scott I don&#039;t see that blog post as leaving much room for discussion either, partially because it conflates a variety of issues in a way that is tempting but not particularly productive. As I see it, open education can&#039;t possibly take the same form everywhere (and shouldn&#039;t) nor can any individual, group, or event operate in such a way that it addresses everyone&#039;s needs everywhere. What Minhaaj writes about is very familiar to me-- I see it all the time in the context of, for instance, Native Alaskan culture and sharing and how it interacts/works (and doesn&#039;t) with &quot;Western&quot; ways and laws. But the space that he is talking about is naturally one of subversion-- the countries that Minhaaj claims operate in very different ways may do so at some points and in some places, but they too are bound by all kinds difficulties that come from governmental desires to integrate with other countries and the de-facto subversion of wanting to operate outside of those constraints. He may have a valid gripe with (some) open ed discussions and activities and the way that portray and attempt to work with non-Western cultures and people, but he proposes his own one-sided and similarly myopic view in response, filled with straw- and bogie-men that don&#039;t represent the issues any more accurately and I don&#039;t see how that helps matters at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Scott I don&#8217;t see that blog post as leaving much room for discussion either, partially because it conflates a variety of issues in a way that is tempting but not particularly productive. As I see it, open education can&#8217;t possibly take the same form everywhere (and shouldn&#8217;t) nor can any individual, group, or event operate in such a way that it addresses everyone&#8217;s needs everywhere. What Minhaaj writes about is very familiar to me&#8211; I see it all the time in the context of, for instance, Native Alaskan culture and sharing and how it interacts/works (and doesn&#8217;t) with &#8220;Western&#8221; ways and laws. But the space that he is talking about is naturally one of subversion&#8211; the countries that Minhaaj claims operate in very different ways may do so at some points and in some places, but they too are bound by all kinds difficulties that come from governmental desires to integrate with other countries and the de-facto subversion of wanting to operate outside of those constraints. He may have a valid gripe with (some) open ed discussions and activities and the way that portray and attempt to work with non-Western cultures and people, but he proposes his own one-sided and similarly myopic view in response, filled with straw- and bogie-men that don&#8217;t represent the issues any more accurately and I don&#8217;t see how that helps matters at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Leslie</title>
		<link>http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-408742</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/#comment-408742</guid>
		<description>Nancy, I love your suggestion to replay our entrance into a group with the atitude of “I am loved/respected” as a given. In my experience, this &#039;small&#039; change is in fact an immense step and is exactly the kind of self-affirmation that is needed to help deal with some of the feelings Chris describes at the end of his post. I &#039;know&#039; this, and yet like so many other things I &#039;know,&#039; I still regularly forget it - thanks for reminding me. 

Chris, I don&#039;t have any answers too and share many of the frustrations you express here. This came up again yesterday in a twitter conversation with Leigh Blackall who had pointed to &lt;a href=&quot;http://minhaaj.blogspot.com/2009/08/miseries-of-oers-and-western-freedoms.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a post that strongly criticizes the entire OER movement&lt;/a&gt;. What frustrated me about that post is that it didn&#039;t feel like it left me *any* room to engage it. But to me, that&#039;s one of the learnings from all of this - that it&#039;s important to remain open, recognize and respect these critiques, try to engage them and learn and change where possible, but also be able to sit with the feelings they bring up and not necessarily just &#039;resolve&#039; them, make them go away. I&#039;m not very good at that - I seem to want to resolve things. I&#039;m working on that, and I appreciate these as opportunities to practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nancy, I love your suggestion to replay our entrance into a group with the atitude of “I am loved/respected” as a given. In my experience, this &#8217;small&#8217; change is in fact an immense step and is exactly the kind of self-affirmation that is needed to help deal with some of the feelings Chris describes at the end of his post. I &#8216;know&#8217; this, and yet like so many other things I &#8216;know,&#8217; I still regularly forget it &#8211; thanks for reminding me. </p>
<p>Chris, I don&#8217;t have any answers too and share many of the frustrations you express here. This came up again yesterday in a twitter conversation with Leigh Blackall who had pointed to <a href="http://minhaaj.blogspot.com/2009/08/miseries-of-oers-and-western-freedoms.html" rel="nofollow">a post that strongly criticizes the entire OER movement</a>. What frustrated me about that post is that it didn&#8217;t feel like it left me *any* room to engage it. But to me, that&#8217;s one of the learnings from all of this &#8211; that it&#8217;s important to remain open, recognize and respect these critiques, try to engage them and learn and change where possible, but also be able to sit with the feelings they bring up and not necessarily just &#8216;resolve&#8217; them, make them go away. I&#8217;m not very good at that &#8211; I seem to want to resolve things. I&#8217;m working on that, and I appreciate these as opportunities to practice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cole</title>
		<link>http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-408314</link>
		<dc:creator>Cole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/#comment-408314</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris ... enjoyed the post as a follow up to the conversation I just read through over at D&#039;Arcy&#039;s place.  I think it was good gender mix as it is never easy to get the perfect balance.  Even when the numbers balance out, there will always be a sense of exclusion by some regardless of gender or race ... those elements only amplify the existence of it.

As an aside, it appeared to me that this may be the start of this movement moving into the mainstream and I suspect that will attract a more diverse crowd in the coming years.

I was able to more easily fall into conversations with people I&#039;d never met only b/c of the social network effects.  I read your blog and follow you on Twitter so there is a much more natural opening for me to engage with you.  I felt that way with a handful of people, but I never felt like I was really in.  I guess I need to deal with the fact that has nearly everything to do with me -- I&#039;ve watched and read nearly all the people I stressed about meeting and talking to admit on their blogs just how intimated they were meeting everyone else.  I guess in short we aren&#039;t impostors, we&#039;re just people working to find where we fit.  Maybe no different than when we were kids negotiating new friendships and relationships.  I think in a lot of ways forcing myself to first go and then to try and work myself into conversations was a lot about growing.  I didn&#039;t go expecting to feel so uncomfortable, but did feel that way in a lot of situations.  What I&#039;ve had to reflect on is that I was in a different country, a new city, a new culture, a new community, and around people who I wanted to make an impression on.  All in all, I&#039;m really pleased with how it all went down.  I grew socially and intellectually.  Its not everyday that I can say that about an academic conference.

Ok, time for me to get off the couch.  Great post and great conversation starter!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris &#8230; enjoyed the post as a follow up to the conversation I just read through over at D&#8217;Arcy&#8217;s place.  I think it was good gender mix as it is never easy to get the perfect balance.  Even when the numbers balance out, there will always be a sense of exclusion by some regardless of gender or race &#8230; those elements only amplify the existence of it.</p>
<p>As an aside, it appeared to me that this may be the start of this movement moving into the mainstream and I suspect that will attract a more diverse crowd in the coming years.</p>
<p>I was able to more easily fall into conversations with people I&#8217;d never met only b/c of the social network effects.  I read your blog and follow you on Twitter so there is a much more natural opening for me to engage with you.  I felt that way with a handful of people, but I never felt like I was really in.  I guess I need to deal with the fact that has nearly everything to do with me &#8212; I&#8217;ve watched and read nearly all the people I stressed about meeting and talking to admit on their blogs just how intimated they were meeting everyone else.  I guess in short we aren&#8217;t impostors, we&#8217;re just people working to find where we fit.  Maybe no different than when we were kids negotiating new friendships and relationships.  I think in a lot of ways forcing myself to first go and then to try and work myself into conversations was a lot about growing.  I didn&#8217;t go expecting to feel so uncomfortable, but did feel that way in a lot of situations.  What I&#8217;ve had to reflect on is that I was in a different country, a new city, a new culture, a new community, and around people who I wanted to make an impression on.  All in all, I&#8217;m really pleased with how it all went down.  I grew socially and intellectually.  Its not everyday that I can say that about an academic conference.</p>
<p>Ok, time for me to get off the couch.  Great post and great conversation starter!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: George Siemens</title>
		<link>http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-408294</link>
		<dc:creator>George Siemens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/#comment-408294</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris,

The topic you address - inclusiveness and gender equity - is different from the highly socialized soft isolation that close-knit peers exhibit in their interactions with each other. Gender equity and inclusion is something that you&#039;ve achieved to a good degree with OpenEd09. The isolation that comes from trying to crack a tightly-connected peer group (such as Jen is referring to) with their own layer of inside jokes and terminology reminds me too much of high school. I don&#039;t think you as a conference organizer can reasonably be expected to address this. That&#039;s something for the broader field to work on. How? I haven&#039;t a clue...I just know it&#039;s important and it&#039;s a mindset shift. Social isolation won&#039;t be solved by having a certain % of female presenters or attendees. 

In terms of inclusiveness, you did better with OpenEd than almost any conference I&#039;ve seen in the edtech field. Your speaker list was diverse in both culture and gender. Take a bow for that!

Now, about that impostor syndrome, Chris...you&#039;ve referenced this before. And it resonates with me. I am waiting for the conference where I am finished presenting and someone declares &quot;this man is an idiot&quot; and the entire audience simultaneously agrees. Like you, I don&#039;t like large social gatherings. I would gladly meet with a small group to discuss a topic over dinner or even for an evening. But, add 6-10 people into a room, throw in a few beverages, and suddenly the interaction becomes one of social negotiation, public displays, positioning, reputation creation, etc. Unless forced to, I&#039;ll always skip these interactions and spend the evening in my hotel room doing email. The social preening (I don&#039;t know what else to call it) is too taxing an activity to warrant effort for me.

My only complaint with you Chris is that you don&#039;t write enough. You offer brilliant insights into complex subject areas. And you lead with an good blend of cognition and emotion. 

George</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris,</p>
<p>The topic you address &#8211; inclusiveness and gender equity &#8211; is different from the highly socialized soft isolation that close-knit peers exhibit in their interactions with each other. Gender equity and inclusion is something that you&#8217;ve achieved to a good degree with OpenEd09. The isolation that comes from trying to crack a tightly-connected peer group (such as Jen is referring to) with their own layer of inside jokes and terminology reminds me too much of high school. I don&#8217;t think you as a conference organizer can reasonably be expected to address this. That&#8217;s something for the broader field to work on. How? I haven&#8217;t a clue&#8230;I just know it&#8217;s important and it&#8217;s a mindset shift. Social isolation won&#8217;t be solved by having a certain % of female presenters or attendees. </p>
<p>In terms of inclusiveness, you did better with OpenEd than almost any conference I&#8217;ve seen in the edtech field. Your speaker list was diverse in both culture and gender. Take a bow for that!</p>
<p>Now, about that impostor syndrome, Chris&#8230;you&#8217;ve referenced this before. And it resonates with me. I am waiting for the conference where I am finished presenting and someone declares &#8220;this man is an idiot&#8221; and the entire audience simultaneously agrees. Like you, I don&#8217;t like large social gatherings. I would gladly meet with a small group to discuss a topic over dinner or even for an evening. But, add 6-10 people into a room, throw in a few beverages, and suddenly the interaction becomes one of social negotiation, public displays, positioning, reputation creation, etc. Unless forced to, I&#8217;ll always skip these interactions and spend the evening in my hotel room doing email. The social preening (I don&#8217;t know what else to call it) is too taxing an activity to warrant effort for me.</p>
<p>My only complaint with you Chris is that you don&#8217;t write enough. You offer brilliant insights into complex subject areas. And you lead with an good blend of cognition and emotion. </p>
<p>George</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nancy White</title>
		<link>http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-408270</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 23:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/#comment-408270</guid>
		<description>Just a fun mind trip. 

What if we could replay our entrance into a group, conference etc, with a mind/heart that says &quot;I am loved/respected&quot; as a given. Whether it is true or not. Just have that attitude. 

What might change?

What I loved about this edu-blog-guys network that I first encountered at Northern Voice was you/they (and Chris, my experience is that you are part of this) all gave off this amazing  vibe of love, interest in others, etc. But in the intervening time, your love for each other has grown, been reified by your inside language, and by your reputation and standing in the &quot;world&quot; (whatever that is). In other words, we feel your love of each other and start ignoring your love of us. (I suspect this is our own crazy minds doing this to ourselves. I know I do it! )  My thought is that this allows us to live into our own imposter syndrome. 

If we switch the conversation in our own heads to &quot;I am loved&quot; as default (sort of like that trick of some teachers who tell their students on day one everyone starts with an A), what might happen? 

Again, I suspect we have to believe this first before we can believe that others really DO love us. Odd human beings. Sheesh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a fun mind trip. </p>
<p>What if we could replay our entrance into a group, conference etc, with a mind/heart that says &#8220;I am loved/respected&#8221; as a given. Whether it is true or not. Just have that attitude. </p>
<p>What might change?</p>
<p>What I loved about this edu-blog-guys network that I first encountered at Northern Voice was you/they (and Chris, my experience is that you are part of this) all gave off this amazing  vibe of love, interest in others, etc. But in the intervening time, your love for each other has grown, been reified by your inside language, and by your reputation and standing in the &#8220;world&#8221; (whatever that is). In other words, we feel your love of each other and start ignoring your love of us. (I suspect this is our own crazy minds doing this to ourselves. I know I do it! )  My thought is that this allows us to live into our own imposter syndrome. </p>
<p>If we switch the conversation in our own heads to &#8220;I am loved&#8221; as default (sort of like that trick of some teachers who tell their students on day one everyone starts with an A), what might happen? </p>
<p>Again, I suspect we have to believe this first before we can believe that others really DO love us. Odd human beings. Sheesh!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Barry Dahl</title>
		<link>http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/comment-page-1/#comment-408265</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Dahl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chrislott.org/story/wittgenstein-wasnt-a-woman/#comment-408265</guid>
		<description>If it&#039;s any consolation, you just made a difference for me. Thanks for that. Impostor syndrome sometimes eats me alive - from the inside out. Later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s any consolation, you just made a difference for me. Thanks for that. Impostor syndrome sometimes eats me alive &#8211; from the inside out. Later.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
